4T65E AWD ISSUES: Date: Sat Oct 6 17:00:40 PDT 2007 Subject: 4T65E, AWD Disable Light On No Codes Vehicle: 2004 Buick Rendezvous Posted Fix: Replaced the Clutch Pump Check Valve In Rear Diff Problem / Fix: We have seen 2 of these with the same problem. The other was a Pontiac Aztek. It may be a common know fault, but we don't see many AWDs here so I thought I would post it. The vehicle works fine, but the AWD Disable light is on, and of course there is no power flow to the rear wheels. There are no codes even using the Tech2 and looking at the data nothing looks out of order except the AWD parameter is set to disable. The light on the dash is lite saying AWD Disable. If you have this problem drain the rear diff and pull the Clutch pump check valve out of the diff. It is pretty easy to tell it is broken just by looking at it. Not a big deal to replace and seems to be a common problem. Dan Tucker - Tucker's Transmission transman@prodigy.net TRNW Member Since: 09/09/2007 (0 | 31) -End of Thread- 41TE CLUSTER PROBLEM: Date: Mon Oct 22 15:10:24 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Vehicle: 1999 Dodge Caravan, 3.0 L Mileage: 156,000 kms PAST REPAIRS; Original Customer Complaint: None Original Codes Present: None Previous Repairs: None REPAIRS THIS VISIT; Current Customer Complaint: Rejected Air care inspection Limp Mode Codes Currently Present: P1695 - No Body CCD Message P1698 - No Trans CCD Message from TCM Work Completed: Installed new EATX Relay and new ignition switch. Summary: when we turn the key to accessory position, the selector does illuminate and we can select the range. However when we start the vehicle seconds later they disappear. Walter Swanson - Lee's Transmission wswanson@uniserve.com TRNW Member Since: 10/19/2007 (2 | 0) RESPONSES: Date: Mon Oct 22 17:17:33 PDT 2007 Subject: RE: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Vehicle: 1999 Dodge Caravan, 3.0 L Walter, If you have the Snap-on scanner attatched, disconnect it and try again. I wasted alot of time once due to our dear friends at Snap-on. Yet one more problem they never heard of. Kevin Mumie - shiftrx@pa.metrocast.net TRNW Member Since: 09/11/2007 (0 | 5) Date: Mon Oct 22 15:54:33 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer You didn't say if it would continue to stay on if you turned the key to the run position but did NOT start it. Can you communicate w/ all modules? abs, body, transmission, engine? I understand correctly, that you have not performed any transmission work at this point. chuck s Chuck Stasny Houston, Texas USA cdsstaz@wt.net TRNW Member Since: 09/09/2007 (2 | 61) Date: Mon Oct 22 16:03:12 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Walter, When it's acting up, are you able to access the TCM with your scanner? If not, you more than likely have a bad TCM. The one that we had would only act up if it was below 35 degrees outside. It would start, then go immediately into limp mode and the gear indicators would all be lit up, but odometer and speedometer were dead. Greg Wilburn Wilburn's Transmissions Inc. Nebraska Greg Wilburn Scottsbluff, Nebraska USA gregw@prairieweb.com TRNW Member Since: 09/09/2007 (0 | 31) UPDATE BY AUTHOR: Date: Tue Oct 23 09:02:18 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer anyone with info or Direction would be much appreciated. We have just made the switch to follow everyone over here at TRNW ! Walter Swanson - Lee's Transmission wswanson@uniserve.com TRNW Member Since: 10/19/2007 (1 | 1) MORE RESPONSES: Date: Tue Oct 23 10:27:38 PDT 2007 Subject: RE: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Vehicle: 1999 Dodge Caravan, 3.0 L Hey walter, Maybe, Its possible there is a bad connection under dash to the cluster. Sometimes a hard smack on the top of the dashboard could bring back a bad connection. Or wiggle the connector to IP. Like a PSOM on Ford pickups. You can unhook modules one at a time to see if you get comm back with other modules. That can narrow it down some. Say, you unhook a BCM and you get comm back with TCM, then that should lead one to having a bad BCM, or something like that. Some basic theory on pci bus is very helpful too:) Which is more than I can explain. Just some thoughts. Rex Wheeler - Buds Transmission Service, Inc budstrans@comcast.net TRNW Member Since: 09/11/2007 (0 | 5) Date: Tue Oct 23 19:27:22 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Walter, It sounds like the PCI bus is going down. I assume that you are unable to communicate with the TCM and these codes are from the PCM? If that is the case, then there are 3 primary causes; 1. The cluster is bad. You will need to remove the cluster in order to eliminate it as a possible cause. Remove the cluster and then see if you can communicate with the TCM. If you can now communicate with the TCM, then order a new cluster. Everything may even go back to normal after you re-install the bad cluster, but the problem will return. 2. There is battery acid in the wiring harness. If the battery box looks like battery melt down occurred at some point in this vehicle's history, you will want to open the harness and look for swollen corroded wires. Like this! This is more common in the RS models (2001-2006) where the main harness passes directly under the battery box. 3. The TCM could also be failed. Try disconnecting it and see if you can communicate with the ABS module or the BCM. You could also check for power and grounds, and the presence of the PCI bus at the TCM connector. The PCI bus wire should have oscillating voltage from 0 to 7.5 volts. Hope this helps. Tod Chretien Modesto, California USA tod@trnw.net TRNW Member Since: 09/07/2007 (1 | 29) Date: Thu Oct 25 06:49:54 PDT 2007 Subject: RE: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Vehicle: 1999 Dodge Caravan, 3.0 L try and check connections at battery, or possible pull the cluster and check the solder joints, might look good, but trust me a good solder joint is a bad solder joint. resolder all main pin connections on board and any other that you feel comfortable with. fixed alot of gm,ford, and chrysler cluster problems with that. Matt Tabor - autoquest flukeluck@yahoo.com TRNW Member Since: 09/28/2007 (1 | 1) ANOTHER UPDATE BY AUTHOR: Date: Thu Nov 1 10:45:05 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer We have gone thru the Diagnostic info Tod was kind enough to send to us. After inspecting wire harness, checking instrument conn. and disconecting Modules one at a time , we still have no communication. any other help would be much appreciated. Walter Swanson - Lee's Transmission wswanson@uniserve.com TRNW Member Since: 10/19/2007 (2 | 2) EVEN MORE RESPONSES: Date: Thu Nov 1 14:40:18 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Walt, how about writing a thorough recap of this thread, with what was actually done, tested and how, including the results of the tests and what was used to perform the tests. This isn't one of the more common or typical problems that we deal with, so it's going to take some time and thought to try and help out with it, and I strongly suspect that the Devil is going to be in the details, which will need to be clearly stated, IMO, for us to be of any benefit. If Tod sent you the test charts for that code, you should have arrived at a conclusion of one sort or another, other than there is still no communication. We're going to need details...... Mike Mike McLaughlin Freeland, Michigan USA mikestranssvc@chartermi.net TRNW Member Since: 09/08/2007 (0 | 31) Date: Thu Nov 1 16:16:41 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer maybe the speedo head is dead? You could always resort to substitution, just find another customer w/ the same van and start swapping parts. It just so happens that I have a 98 ply voyager that has a simlar problem and would be glad to compare your testing results w/ mine. Just send me the same testing info Tod sent you and I we can run through the test simutaneously. Then we can let Mike fix them both chuck s Chuck Stasny Houston, Texas USA cdsstaz@wt.net TRNW Member Since: 09/09/2007 (2 | 71) Date: Thu Nov 1 16:20:30 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer I was wondering the same thing Cs...... maybe the indicator module itself is dead. ???? beats me Joey Campbell Campbell's Transmission Service Ridgeway, VA Ph 276-957-1819 Joey Campbell Ridgeway, Virginia USA shifless@comcast.net TRNW Member Since: 09/08/2007 (0 | 32) Date: Thu Nov 1 16:25:40 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Yup, can see it now, put on my reader board, in need of 98 voyager for parts swapping. steve Steve Allbee Spokane, Washington USA customtransmission@comcast.net TRNW Member Since: 09/10/2007 (1 | 62) Date: Thu Nov 1 16:32:53 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer I will get those from my tech & post. FRUSTRATING Walter Swanson Vancouver, British Columbia Canada wswanson@uniserve.com TRNW Member Since: 10/19/2007 (2 | 3) Date: Fri Nov 2 04:40:20 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer LOL!! There's always the EASY Button that can be pushed.....send it to the dealer. Mike Mike McLaughlin Freeland, Michigan USA mikestranssvc@chartermi.net TRNW Member Since: 09/08/2007 (0 | 32) Date: Thu Nov 1 20:44:32 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer don't be making fun steve, substitution IS a proven method chuck s Chuck Stasny Houston, Texas USA cdsstaz@wt.net TRNW Member Since: 09/09/2007 (2 | 72) Date: Fri Nov 2 05:27:48 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Mine would say" Free Transmission Service and car rental to the first 98 Voyager" cs Chuck Stasny Houston, Texas USA cdsstaz@wt.net TRNW Member Since: 09/09/2007 (2 | 73) Date: Fri Nov 2 05:35:14 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Gee, thanks! LOL! Best Regards, Tod Chretien TRNW Inc. Tod Chretien Modesto, California USA tod@trnw.net TRNW Member Since: 09/07/2007 (1 | 33) Date: Fri Nov 2 05:36:40 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer LMAO!! Just trying to help, Tod. Mike Mike McLaughlin Freeland, Michigan USA mikestranssvc@sbcglobal.net TRNW Member Since: 09/08/2007 (0 | 27) Date: Fri Nov 2 07:04:39 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Then go to the nearest yard and get a replacement. steve Steve Allbee Spokane, Washington USA customtransmission@comcast.net TRNW Member Since: 09/10/2007 (1 | 63) Date: Fri Nov 2 15:20:16 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Ok, let's try this a slightly different way. Not only did I want to try and help you fix it, Walt, I wanted to try and learn something new, because there are MANY different things that can cause this problem and also different symptoms or results in the vehicle operation, so we'll try and go with some questions and maybe we all can get this one figured out. 1. What type of scanner are you using? 2. What modules have you tried to communicate with? 3. What modules COULD you communicate with? 4. Does the transmission work or is it in failsafe? 5. Was this the original problem and the only problem that you are trying to correct? 6. What is the voltage on pins 3 & 11 on the ALDL KOEO? 7. What is the voltage on pins 3 & 11 on the ALDL KOER? 8. Does this have an aftermarket remote start installed? 9. Does this have an aftermarket alarm installed? 10. Does this have an aftermarket radio installed? 11. What led you to replace the ignition switch and EATX relay? Because it's in failsafe? Let's start with these and see where it leads.... Mike Mike McLaughlin Freeland, Michigan USA mikestranssvc@chartermi.net TRNW Member Since: 09/08/2007 (0 | 34) Date: Fri Nov 2 15:48:55 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Thanks Mike, 1 We have a Modis. 2 All 3 Only 1 , Engine side on the Modis menu screen. 4 Failsafe 5 Yes 6 Ign off 2.5v 7 Ign on 8.55v 8 No remote starter 9 Yes - aftermarket alarm 10 Stock Chrysler Radio 11 After reading several fix data base for same problem. We did not want to spend a huge amount of diagnostic time as we are now having to do. Usually if it is an electrical wiring harness short I do not want it, as most customers do not want to pay for The kind of time it takes. I am now getting to that point with this one. Thanks Mike Walt Walter Swanson Vancouver, British Columbia Canada wswanson@uniserve.com TRNW Member Since: 10/19/2007 (2 | 4) Date: Fri Nov 2 15:52:27 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Walt, on 6 & 7, do you mean key on 2.5 volts and engine running 8.55 volts? Mike Mike McLaughlin Freeland, Michigan USA mikestranssvc@chartermi.net TRNW Member Since: 09/08/2007 (0 | 37) Date: Fri Nov 2 16:03:04 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer 6 is Key off 2.5v 7 is Ignition on - Engine off 8.55v Walt Walter Swanson Vancouver, British Columbia Canada wswanson@uniserve.com TRNW Member Since: 10/19/2007 (2 | 5) Date: Fri Nov 2 16:18:19 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Well, that should make it easier, then. The problem is the bus has a short to voltage. You'll need to find out which module is causing the short or which modules circuits are causing the short. It should be easier, because it won't have to be running to know when you found it. Since it has an aftermarket alarm installed, it very likely is tied partly into the Body Control Module, so that would be a logical place to start, for me anyway. I have quite a dislike for all of that add-on crap and the way it's added on. I'll type a list of all the modules on the CCD Bus below, so you know all the modules that can be involved, but once you eliminate the extra voltage (short) the bus should start working again. Probably what I would do first is keep your meter hooked to the ALDL and watch the voltage with the key on, show it shows the 8.55 volts as you unhook modules and as soon as you unplug the one that causes the voltage to drop back to 2.5 volts, you've found the source of the problem and how to correct it will depend on what you find. But I would also keep an eye on where the wires for the alarm were added, in relation to the CCD wires as I was unplugging modules, especially the BCM. Here's the list: Instrument Cluster A/C Heater Control Airbag Control Module Radio Body Control Module Anti-Lock Brake Controller Transmission Controller Overhead Console Powertrain Control Module Mike Mike McLaughlin Freeland, Michigan USA mikestranssvc@chartermi.net TRNW Member Since: 09/08/2007 (0 | 38) Date: Fri Nov 2 16:40:41 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Thank you very much Mike, you may be correct about the aftermarket alarm. I have heard from others how they have been led in a wild goose chase. Personally I have not. We will continue on Monday with this one. Thanks again, Walt Walter Swanson Vancouver, British Columbia Canada wswanson@uniserve.com TRNW Member Since: 10/19/2007 (2 | 6) Date: Fri Nov 2 16:51:13 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer You're Welcome and I hope it goes well and quickly for you on Monday. I lost count of all the aftermarket remote start systems that I've taken off recently for weird problems, that most of the owners didn't know they even had, since the previous owners never gave them any remotes...... Just think of the CCD Bus system as a network like your PC's use that's tied all together with Cat 5 cables, except the CCD is just a twisted pair of two wires. Whatever you have tied into the network will have the same signals on it at all points. That's why you have to remove components until you remove the stray voltage from the network in order to find the source, because once it's on the network, it goes everywhere the network goes.... Keep us posted on Monday. Mike Mike McLaughlin Freeland, Michigan USA mikestranssvc@chartermi.net TRNW Member Since: 09/08/2007 (0 | 39) Date: Fri Nov 2 16:56:25 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Will do. Sorry I did not meet up with all of you in Vegas this year. Have a great weekend. Regards, Walt Walter Swanson Vancouver, British Columbia Canada wswanson@uniserve.com TRNW Member Since: 10/19/2007 (2 | 7) Date: Fri Nov 2 17:25:23 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Well, I guess I'd have to be there, first. One more thing I don't think I mentioned to keep in the back of your mind while you're checking this is that on many if not all of these, the original source of the 2.5 volts that should be on the wires originates from the BCM, so when that is the case, the bus should go completely dead of voltage when it's disconnected. If you still have voltage, especially the 8.5, you'll know it's coming from elsewhere. Mike Mike McLaughlin Freeland, Michigan USA mikestranssvc@chartermi.net TRNW Member Since: 09/08/2007 (0 | 40) Date: Fri Nov 2 17:35:57 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Mike, That was good detective work. I am just going to print it and give it too my tech to go and check mine. Can I use this 3/11 volt ADL measurement approach on other manufacturers vehicles or is it unique to a few? Have you any scope shots? Chuck S Chuck Stasny Houston, Texas USA cdsstaz@wt.net TRNW Member Since: 09/09/2007 (2 | 74) Date: Fri Nov 2 19:20:20 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer I can't really give any accurate answer to that question, Chuck. With all the differences in all the vehicles, I would figure the answer would be a no. I just look them up and try and figure them out one at a time, and sometimes still not get it right the first time. Mike Mike McLaughlin Freeland, Michigan USA mikestranssvc@chartermi.net TRNW Member Since: 09/08/2007 (0 | 41) Date: Sat Nov 3 06:27:19 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer I may be barking up the wrong tree but, I've had 3 of these that the indicator did not work right after o'haul and all I did to fix them was, with key off, move the shift lever from park to low several times, put it back in park, turn key on then off. Cycle shifter again, put it in neutral, cycle key on off again. Keep doing this thru all the gears. The last one took several times doing this before it started working. I'm sure this procedure is not in any repair manual and most will say it makes no sense but it WORKED for me. The next one probably won't. Preston Preston Farmer Chickamauga, Georgia USA ipz2222@comcast.net TRNW Member Since: 09/11/2007 (0 | 15) Date: Sat Nov 3 06:40:34 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer I wouldn't argue with what has worked for you, Preston. I've also read about people just unplugging and plugging back in the instrument cluster to get the indicator working again, kind of like a reboot, but I haven't had to try that myself, though. I don't think you're barking up the wrong tree, but you may be barking at the wrong problem. This van has a P1698 & a P1695 that needs to be fixed. The indicator will most likely fix itself when the codes are fixed and communication is restored to the bus. The subject line talks about the indicator, but I think it will turn out to be a side issue, not the actual problem. I expect we'll learn more on Monday. Mike Mike McLaughlin Freeland, Michigan USA mikestranssvc@chartermi.net TRNW Member Since: 09/08/2007 (0 | 42) Date: Fri Nov 2 07:02:37 PDT 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Then go to the nearest yard and get a replacement. steve Steve Allbee Spokane, Washington USA customtransmission@comcast.net TRNW Member Since: 09/10/2007 (1 | 64) Date: Mon Nov 5 15:13:03 PST 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Hi Mike, we now have illumination, functioning trans, with no speedometer. My tech. pulled the rear wiper fuse. We are now searching for the wiring schematics for the Body Control Module. Regards, Walt Walter Swanson Vancouver, British Columbia Canada wswanson@uniserve.com TRNW Member Since: 10/19/2007 (2 | 8) Date: Tue Nov 6 05:57:46 PST 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Progress.....it's a cool thing. Do you still need diagrams, Walt? I can send them, if you do. At this point you'll also need the Power Distribution diagrams, as well. You'll need to know what all you killed when you pulled the rear wiper fuse, that let the bus start working again. Did it happen to be fuse #6? Mike Mike McLaughlin Freeland, Michigan USA mikestranssvc@sbcglobal.net TRNW Member Since: 09/08/2007 (0 | 29) Date: Tue Nov 6 09:04:54 PST 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Thanks Mike, Tod has done so last night. Yes, the # 6 fuse. Thanks so much. Will definitely let you know. Regards, Walt Walter Swanson Vancouver, British Columbia Canada wswanson@uniserve.com TRNW Member Since: 10/19/2007 (2 | 9) Date: Tue Nov 6 09:57:29 PST 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer OK. Just for a little added information, should you need it, fuse 6 is hot in start and run, sends power to the BCM on pins 11, 12, & 13, feeds the Message Center, Automatic Day/Night Mirrors, Rear Wiper, A/C Heater Control, & Mini-Trip Computer. And the A/C Heater Control and Overhead Console use the CCD Bus, so that should make them stronger candidates to be the source of the problem, it would seem, anyway. I'm looking forward to the fix!! Mike Mike McLaughlin Freeland, Michigan USA mikestranssvc@sbcglobal.net TRNW Member Since: 09/08/2007 (0 | 30) Date: Tue Nov 6 11:04:00 PST 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Hi everyone, we are getting closer. My tech. has located a short at the connector which plugs into the Rear wiper buttons & defrost located in console below the Radio !!! Does anyone have the wiring schematics for that circuits ? Also has anyone seen that before ? Regards, Walt Walter Swanson Vancouver, British Columbia Canada wswanson@uniserve.com TRNW Member Since: 10/19/2007 (2 | 10) Date: Tue Nov 6 11:28:16 PST 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer I sent you some diagrams, Walt. And nope, I haven't seen that particular problem before. Mike Mike McLaughlin Freeland, Michigan USA mikestranssvc@sbcglobal.net TRNW Member Since: 09/08/2007 (0 | 31) Date: Tue Nov 6 11:41:02 PST 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer THANK YOU ! Walter Swanson Vancouver, British Columbia Canada wswanson@uniserve.com TRNW Member Since: 10/19/2007 (2 | 11) Date: Tue Nov 6 12:39:30 PST 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Lookin better. With the Hvac connector disconnected (which is melted) We have operation, with the exception of the functions which are controlled by the body control module. Will keep you posted. Walt Walter Swanson Vancouver, British Columbia Canada wswanson@uniserve.com TRNW Member Since: 10/19/2007 (2 | 12) Date: Tue Nov 6 15:32:40 PST 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer This is an exciting problem and update. You know something I have learned is if you got a weird problem, see what all is working on the vehicle. With the rear wiper not working that was a clue. Great job so far Walt. Keep going we are rooting for you. Dan Tucker Tucker's Transmission 2000 North University Pine Bluff, AR 71601 Dan Tucker Pine Bluff, Arkansas USA transman@prodigy.net TRNW Member Since: 09/09/2007 (0 | 54) Date: Tue Nov 6 15:48:34 PST 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Thanks Dan, apparently the Hvac control fails all the time according to my Chrysler dealer and my Chrysler Wrecker ( we always new it as the Heater & A/C switch in the old days ) You know the switch which controls that thingy ma bob, which blows on the Windshield ! The connector which is melted is coming from Chrysler in the morning & I now have A good control unit from the Wrecker. ( New from Chrysler $650.00 - Wrecker $200.00 ) Will let you all know the out come tomorrow. Walt Walter Swanson Vancouver, British Columbia Canada wswanson@uniserve.com TRNW Member Since: 10/19/2007 (2 | 13) Date: Tue Nov 6 18:23:30 PST 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Walt, YES, the HVAC often fails, but I have never seen it bring the bus down. I have talked to another tech that I work with who ALSO has over 20 years of Chrysler experience and he has never seen that either. The wires and connector on the back of the HVAC are often over-heated looking due to loose connections, higher amperage required for the blower motor, shorted blower motors, and shorted wiper motors. A shorted rear wiper motor is VERY common on this vehicle, and as I recall, it will cause bus related problems because it would illuminate the airbag light. Question: What happens if you simply disconnect the rear wiper motor connector? My thoughts are that a shorted rear wiper motor is the root of your problem. I don't doubt that the HVAC has failed and possibly causing your problem, but I would like to see you eliminate the rear wiper motor as a possibility before spending any money on an HVAC. Best Regards, Tod Chretien TRNW Inc. Tod Chretien Modesto, California USA tod@trnw.net TRNW Member Since: 09/07/2007 (1 | 34) Date: Wed Nov 7 11:10:11 PST 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer TOD, YOU ARE THE MAN ! U too Mike. Fixed. Rear wiper was the cause. Thanks for every ones input. I will post in the Real Fix Data. Regards, Walt Walter Swanson Vancouver, British Columbia Canada wswanson@uniserve.com TRNW Member Since: 10/19/2007 (2 | 14) POSTED FIX: Date: Wed Nov 7 12:24:15 PST 2007 Subject: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Posted Fix: replaced rear wiper motor When we turn the key to accessory position, the selector does illuminate and we can select the range. However when we start the vehicle seconds later they disappear. After extensive electrical checks ( with the help of TRNW ) we located a short at the heater/AC control which we repaired. After which we linked that Circuit with the rear wiper.(#6 fuse) Walter Swanson - Lee's Transmission wswanson@uniserve.com TRNW Member Since: 10/19/2007 (2 | 13) RESPONSE TO FIX: Date: Wed Nov 7 16:42:26 PST 2007 Subject: RE: 41TE, Selector Ilumination diappears with Odometer Walter: Just wanted to reply that I learned a lot monitoring this problem. I really appreciate all the work that "you guys" did on this car. Even more, I'm very gratefull to have been able to "evesdrop" and learn as we all encounter issues such as this more frequently than ever before. Thanks to the likes of Mike ,Tod and Walters of the world. Glad you got it fixed. What the heck is "ROFLOL"? Kevin Kevin McClure - McClures Transmission LLC mccluretran@earthlink.net TRNW Member Since: 09/21/2007 (1 | 1) -End of Thread- 4R100 PROBLEM: Date: Mon Oct 29 11:03:10 PDT 2007 Subject: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair Vehicle: 1999 Ford F250, 7.3 Deisel Mileage: 188309 PAST REPAIRS; Original Customer Complaint: No Move--Trans burned up bad-- Black converter Original Codes Present: unknown Previous Repairs: Complete overhaul--Master Kit, Int Band, Overdrive Sprag,Bushings,HDRV Torque converter (Precision),Superior code 62 Kit,New Ford pump,Transgo shift kit,Transgo steel line regulator valver,Sonnax Line modulator valve,and a New solenoid assembly. REPAIRS THIS VISIT; Current Customer Complaint: Never left-- flairs into 4th and slightly into 3rd as well though not as bad. Codes Currently Present: None Work Completed: Changed line regulator valves in accunulator body with sonnax # 36948-13K-changed spacers included with valves to change spring pressures on control valves-replaced converter Presures at idle are P-N 75, R- 75, D2 60, 1 70 with the sol pack disconnected, the pressures are 135 in P N D, and 195 in R Summary: I found a fix in the database that replaced the converter--tried that and no luck. The same fix alluded to an article by Lance Wiggins in the Sept 2003 in GEARS.I feel that this article pretty much sums up what is happening, although I don't know what to do to fix it. The PWM solenoid on this truck drops to 50% on the scanner during the shift, and I think that this is the source of the flare. Will it be worth converting this truck to an ON-OFF lockup, and if so how? Does the Gil Younger Kit do this by itself? Do I need to change the Solenoid pack? any other thoughts,or ideas? Bob Oliver - Oliver Transmission shaker@bluevalley.net TRNW Member Since: 09/11/2007 (2 | 0) RESPONSES: Date: Mon Oct 29 11:47:52 PDT 2007 Subject: RE: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair Vehicle: 1999 Ford F250, 7.3 Deisel If you will look at the apply chart, you can see that you add a clutch to get OD so it is nearly impossible to flair. It would just NOT shift. What you probably have is a TCC problem. Normally it make the 3/4 shift w/ LU on but modulated. So if you used the TCC on/off part of the code 62 kit, did you use a non-pwm solenoid block? That will do it. Chuck Stasny - Houston AAMCO cdsstaz@wt.net TRNW Member Since: 09/09/2007 (2 | 65) Date: Mon Oct 29 13:21:25 PDT 2007 Subject: RE: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair Vehicle: 1999 Ford F250, 7.3 Deisel There is a packet seperate for the on/off plug that you put into the tcc lineup. If you didn't put that in, then the 62 kit is not your problem. Steve Allbee - Custom Transmission customtransmission@comcast.net TRNW Member Since: 09/10/2007 (1 | 57) Date: Mon Oct 29 16:20:30 PDT 2007 Subject: RE: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair Vehicle: 1999 Ford F250, 7.3 Deisel Ask Mr. customer if a chip is installed(or reprogrammer)That will make the slip way more noticeable.Take the programming out and it will shift nice.You will still see the release on your scanner but won't feel anything Ron Geddert - Dad's Transmissions Ltd. dadstran@shaw.ca TRNW Member Since: 09/11/2007 (0 | 1) Date: Mon Oct 29 12:03:41 PDT 2007 Subject: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair Chuck--No, I used the PWM solenoid. I was not aware that there was an on-off portion to the code 62 kit. Is it possible that the code 62 kit is responsible for the problem? I am positive that I have done this modification to PWM units before withou problems. Bob Bob Oliver Home, Kansas USA shaker@bluevalley.net TRNW Member Since: 09/11/2007 (1 | 1) Date: Mon Oct 29 13:45:05 PDT 2007 Subject: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair Bob, The normal Ford strategy on the 3-4 shift is to momentarily release the TCC so there isn't a thump on the shift. It usually isn't obvious unless you have a truck with noisy exhaust, though. Lane Floria Delton, Michigan USA lane@ls-trans.com TRNW Member Since: 09/11/2007 (0 | 13) Date: Mon Oct 29 17:17:09 PDT 2007 Subject: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair I've had 2 do this and both were defective,(loose) converters. These were not Dacco. The owner of the rebuilder shop (tc) rode in one of the trucks with me. He has since changed the clutch clearance to eliminate this problem. Have not had anymore since then. Preston Preston Farmer Chickamauga, Georgia USA ipz2222@comcast.net TRNW Member Since: 09/11/2007 (0 | 14) Date: Tue Oct 30 05:50:35 PDT 2007 Subject: RE: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair Vehicle: 1999 Ford F250, 7.3 Deisel Hi Chuck- That's a good point. I remember in the beginning we had some issues installing the 2648 in the E4OD's so it is possible that a 2647 might also cause issues in a 4R100. Something about how the release fluid exhausts is different. When we were converting the PWM systems to ON/OFF we started installing the 2647 again but the OD shifts were unacceptable even in the most severe use trucks. I took Dan Tucker's advice and started leaving them PWM. So far we haven't had one single failure either way and it has been over two years. I'll sure pat Precision of New Hampton on the back, they make one hell of a good torque converter. All our 4R100's get a 2648APSRV converter. Kit Lindsay - Lindsay Transmission kitlindsay@charter.net TRNW Member Since: 09/10/2007 (1 | 23) Date: Tue Oct 30 09:32:59 PDT 2007 Subject: RE: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair Vehicle: 1999 Ford F250, 7.3 Deisel Hi Bob The Gil ON/OFF conversion will keep the TCC applied during the shifts. It can be brutal at heavy throttle openings. I have never had a problem with the 62 Kit. I don't think that you are either. That being said, I have purchased a couple Superior Super Pumps for these 4R100's and they come all modified and ground flat. The Ford pumps are not as flat, in my opinion. Not saying your pump is the problem here. Just want you to know that the Superior pump is way worth the money if you need a pump anyway. I just install the Sonnax press valve and plug the line-lube hole that they drill in it with a small cotter pin. What does your line pressure do when the shift occures? I am thinking you have a problem in the accumulator body, particularly with the line pressure modulator valve. But since I don't install Gil's kit in these transmissions I can't speak to what changes you made that would affect it. I remember there are a couple holes you drill. Maybe they are in the wrong spot? Just thinking outloud here. Good luck- Kit Kit Lindsay - Lindsay Transmission kitlindsay@charter.net TRNW Member Since: 09/10/2007 (1 | 24) Date: Tue Oct 30 10:30:40 PDT 2007 Subject: RE: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair Vehicle: 1999 Ford F250, 7.3 Deisel Bob Ford has a tsb about a 2-3 flare 99-8-1. I have not seen it and it may not apply but someone I'm sure can tell you about it. William Pihl - None due to disability checkball@msn.com TRNW Member Since: 09/09/2007 (0 | 9) Date: Tue Oct 30 04:10:31 PDT 2007 Subject: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair chip - that is a good thought cs Chuck Stasny Houston, Texas USA cdsstaz@wt.net TRNW Member Since: 09/09/2007 (2 | 66) Date: Tue Oct 30 04:14:11 PDT 2007 Subject: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair That reminds me, you said precision HDRV. I thought the 4R100s used a PSRV. Is it possible you put a E40D in a 4R100? And as someone already mentioned, there is a seperate package to turn pwm to on/off. That plug and the 2inch aluminum rod is used for that but requires a non-pwm solenoid pack chuck s Chuck Stasny Houston, Texas USA cdsstaz@wt.net TRNW Member Since: 09/09/2007 (2 | 67) Date: Tue Oct 30 06:00:36 PDT 2007 Subject: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair Chuck, PS and HD confuse me-us at our shop. From what I understand from Precision PS (power stroke) and HD (heavy duty) are exactly the same. I think the future of new converter number are HD, but the old PS numbers will stay around. Dan Tucker Tucker's Transmission 2000 North University Pine Bluff, AR 71601 Dan Tucker Pine Bluff, Arkansas USA transman@prodigy.net TRNW Member Since: 09/09/2007 (0 | 51) Date: Tue Oct 30 06:46:09 PDT 2007 Subject: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair That plug and the 2inch aluminum rod is used for that but requires a non-pwm solenoid pack chuck s Don’t think so, the 2 inch rod is used for the 62 mod. Only a cup plug that you drill out to I think .090 is used and then also the on/off solenoid body. Steve allbee Steve Allbee Spokane, Washington USA customtransmission@comcast.net TRNW Member Since: 09/10/2007 (1 | 59) Date: Tue Oct 30 07:36:03 PDT 2007 Subject: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair I understand you problem. I still ask them to explain every now and then & I am a distributor. But, in this case, the PSRV is used when replacing the 2648 triple plate 4R100 converter which does have a billet bottom but different design form HDRV which is the 2647 E40d converter. The RV part means lower stall and better thrust bearings so they say. cs Chuck Stasny Houston, Texas USA cdsstaz@wt.net TRNW Member Since: 09/09/2007 (2 | 68) Date: Tue Oct 30 07:37:04 PDT 2007 Subject: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair I stand corrected chuck s Chuck Stasny Houston, Texas USA cdsstaz@wt.net TRNW Member Since: 09/09/2007 (2 | 69) Date: Tue Oct 30 08:04:02 PDT 2007 Subject: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair Now the big question, was the plug put in for on/off without the solenoid body being on/off? steve Steve Allbee Spokane, Washington USA customtransmission@comcast.net TRNW Member Since: 09/10/2007 (1 | 60) Date: Tue Oct 30 07:27:13 PDT 2007 Subject: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair Guys-Yes the code 62 kit is the aluminum rod. The on-off conversion is a seperate kit. Gils consists of a valve, sleeve, and a spring. My thinking is that I need to keep the converter clutch applied during the 3-4 shift to get rid of this flare. Or-- Do I get rid of the code 62 kit and go back to all stock as a first step? I can't believe that the code 62 kit is the source of the problem because I have used it as a rebuild standard on several of these diesel 4R100's without a problem. By the way--The converter I'm using is in fact a precision 2748PSRV. I've had 2 different ones in this so I'm confident that the Converter is not the source of the problem. The Truck does in fact have a "Chip" installed, however I have tried Reinstalling the factory programing, and it does not make a difference. I'm wondering --If I convert to On-Off, does the converter stay applied during the shift or will it still release. Bob Oliver Bob Oliver Home, Kansas USA shaker@bluevalley.net TRNW Member Since: 09/11/2007 (1 | 2) Date: Tue Oct 30 09:44:42 PDT 2007 Subject: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair The only thing I have noticed with the on/off (plug with the 95 solenoid body) is it might have a harder than normal (pwm lockup) apply. You will feel the converter come on like a shift during a take off with your foot in the throttle. It will come in after 3rd and before 4th and feel like a shift. If you have a lazy take off, the converter will come in at the same time as 3rd or just afterwards. My customers love the change over. Steve allbee Steve Allbee Spokane, Washington USA customtransmission@comcast.net TRNW Member Since: 09/10/2007 (1 | 61) Date: Tue Oct 30 09:57:01 PDT 2007 Subject: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair Kit -Thanks for the response. The Line pressure just kind of dips when the shift valve strokes,and other than that remains at 100-125 Lbs.(Its kind of hard to follow because I use a transducer instead of an analog guage, and it just responds too fast. I have tried two different accumulator bodies, and more combinations of valves and springs in the control valve setup than I can count. I too have used the superior pumps, and love them, however, I am having trouble finding a supplier for them. Where do you get yours? I am thinking that I may try the Gil On-Off kit. Bob Oliver PS: I missed you at the Wichita ATSG seminar Bob Oliver Home, Kansas USA shaker@bluevalley.net TRNW Member Since: 09/11/2007 (1 | 3) Date: Tue Oct 30 12:42:52 PDT 2007 Subject: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair Hi Bob I had prior plans that I couldn't get out of. I was disapointed too. I get mine from Ared's. But I haven't got one in a while so they might be out? Kit Kit Lindsay Lindsay Transmission 1111 South Maguire Street Warrensburg, MO 64093 660 747 2272 660 909 6000 660 747 2861 www.lindsaytransmission.com People will forget what you said, and forget what you did, but they never forget how you made them feel. Kit Lindsay Warrensburg, Missouri USA kitlindsay@charter.net TRNW Member Since: 09/10/2007 (1 | 25) Date: Tue Oct 30 11:47:06 PDT 2007 Subject: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair The TCC will stay locked during the 3/4 shift. The computer THINKS it is ramping the apply but is stupid at this point. I have tried the other on/offf conversion but like code 62 kit the best. cs Chuck Stasny Houston, Texas USA cdsstaz@wt.net TRNW Member Since: 09/09/2007 (2 | 70) POSTED FIX: Date: Sat Nov 3 06:45:17 PDT 2007 Subject: 4R100, 2-3 and 3-4 flair Posted Fix: Installed Gil Younger 4R100 Lockup On-Off kit Truck had a very "mushy" 2-3 and 3-4 shift where the engine rpm would raise 100 or so on both shifts (It seemed worse on the 3-4). Changing the accumulator control valves and springs seemed to just cause a slide-bump type of feel. The Younger kit keeps the converter clutch applied during the shift.Apparently the computer "thinks" that it is modulating the clutch, but in fact cannot. The result is a very nice 3-4,and 3-4 with no flair at all. Bob Oliver - Oliver Transmission shaker@bluevalley.net TRNW Member Since: 09/11/2007 (1 | 3) -End of Thread-