4T80E R&R Tips: The following information is protected under the copyright of Transmission Digest. HELPFUL TIPS FOR THE RXR TECH In the past year, we have received many inquiries on the Precision International Tech-Line regarding the removal of the 4T80E, in the Cadillac line of automobiles. The following information should act as an outline to help service technicians with removal and installation of this transmission. Since this is a full-framed vehicle, and the removal of the chassis is required, an engine support tool will be needed. OTC MFG CO. produces one that we prefer. The weight of the transaxle is approximately 295 lbs. It is imperative that the engine support fixed is properly secured. We have seen a great deal of damage done to these vehicles when support tools shift. The most common problem associated with unit removal is the technician cannot see three of the four bell housing bolts. When removing the top two bell housing bolts, it has been our experience that a six inch extension, a lock socket and a shallow 18mm socket combination works best for sliding the setup over the wiring harness. The removal of the neutral safety switch is required to gain access to the right lower bell-housing bolt. A 24 inch, ¼ inch long drive, extension with a 15mm swivel socket and ¼ inch swivel combination works best for easy access and removal of this bolt. Caution on reinstall, this bolt must be in bell BEFORE unit is stabbed. Leaving this bolt out will result in flywheel damage! The second most common problem associated is the removal of the frame. Since General Motor's uses a Loctite type of product on all chassis bolts, it makes it extremely difficult to remove this hardware. The use of mild heat is required on all welded nuts to loosen the "Loc-tite", especially on the steering rack hardware. After the removal of the bolts and the chassis. All threads should be cleaned with a tap or a chase. This will alleviate stripping out bolt bores on re-install. The third most common problem is how to stop the steering rack from falling. (This also can be associated with unwanted air bag deployment). Before removing the rear frame bolts, secure the steering rack to the exhaust Y pipe. The steering rack will now stay in place until chassis is re-installed. Note: care should be taken whenever handling steering rack components. The torque converter has floating nuts located in its pads. Take care not to misplace them. The pump drive shaft is hex keyed and will fall right out of the unit. Remember, the unit weighs almost 300 lbs. The Grey Jack Company makes excellent adapters to remove this unit safely. In our shop we have a pair of metal cables with loops we use as a sling to lift unit off jack and onto dolly's. On reinstallation of chassis, it is highly recommended that all bolts are started before any are secured. Chassis must be tightened up evenly. Please consult service manual as to torque specs on specific model. We hope this will help you on this job. The factory labor time is approximately 10 hours for RXR only. It is not been unheard of to spend almost twice that on RXR of this unit. We have been working on these units since 1993. Without the help of Mr. Daniel Peluso of Centereach Transmissions Centereach; New York a lot of this quality tech would not be responsible. Thanks Dan! John Parmenter can be reached via E-mail technical@transmissionkits.com John is a Technical Advisor for Precision International. QUESTION: Hey guys, My R&R guy has his first '94 ELDORADO to R&R (4T80E). He's pretty intimidated by the thing. Could you guys share you tips, tricks and techniques for getting this monster safely from the arms of Cadillac to the bench? (Without the use of explosives.) Thank you VERY very VERY much. From high atop the grassy knoll, Jamie RESPONSES; Jamie,,,, There is a big, ugly wiring harness in front of the 4 bellhousing bolts that is a bear to move, but it must be done to gain access. There is no bell bolt in back, so that helps. Leave the rack bolted to the cradle,,,,the bolts are very hard to get to, and they are put on with a 3/4 impact! Just remove the lines, and the tie-rod ends. I know some folks use 2x4's for engine supports and haven't had a problem,,,,,,,,,,,,yet,,,,,,,,,,,but this sucker is HEAVY and once that cradle is gone, there's nothing between the engine/transmission and the floor. If people are serious about this kind of work, get serious with the equipment that you use!! The trans weighs in at 305# w/TC, so be careful! Nice unit to work on. Make sure your building bench is anchored down! Darwin Kennedy Transmission Elk River, Mn. QUESTION: Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 8:01 AM Subject: R&R 4T80E We have a 93 Cady with the northstar system and a 4T80E. My builder nor my R&R guy has ever pulled one. We have been told that you must remove the intake manifold to pull the transmission. Has anyone pulled one of these? say it ain't so! Any suggestions? jamie RESPONSES: Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 12:23 PM Subject: Re: R&R 4T80E No, you don't have to pull intake. Unit only has 4 bell bolts. The bell bolt on lower right has a fifteen head which has to be wrenched off. Just a pain, take your time . Len (rtrans@kwiknet.net Ralph's Transmission Vineland, NJ 08360 Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 22:17:42 -0700 Subject: Re: R&R 4T80E jamie; we do quite a few 4t80es no intake manifold does not have to be removed do you have a fax # i can send you some excellent info on subject unfortunately new to this system unable to send over e mail this will really help you also tell me why you are pulling this unit i.e customers complaint all the best JOHN PARMENTER PRECISION INTERNATIONAL Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 00:09:42 -0400 Subject: Re: R&R 4T80E Jamie, the only one I had to pull the intake on was an Aurora. I had to R & R the starter to clear the bell housing. Caddy's have a little more room. One other thing I found, if you unbolt the master cyl. and move it forward, it's a little easier to get to the 15 mm bolt. Hope this helps. LarryU Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:50:42 -0500 It's not tooooo bad,,, there is no "hidden" bellhousing bolt in back BUT,,, the 4 bolts in front are covered up by a very big,, tightly packed, wire harness. That's the biggest pain of the whole thing. Also you have to take the rack out with the cradle, it's a lot easier than trying to unbolt the rack,,,,those dam bolts are VERY tight, and hard to get at. It's a heavy mother, so keep your wits about you when doing any kind of balancing act! Darwin Kennedy Transmission Elk River, Mn. QUESTION: Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:45:33 -0800 Subject: TRNW-2: 4T80E R&R Group, I have a 1993 Cadillac front wheeler (I forget the model) that won't move. I am replacing it with a reman. It has the V-8 Northstar engine, and when looking at the job, I didn't even know where to begin. You can't even see the bell housing on this thing, much less the bolts. 3 hours later, I have the frame removed, and I am ready to put a jack under it. The problem is, I can't find the lower-right bell housing bolt. I know on most GM front wheelers, you have to access this bolt from the passenger side wheel well with a 3-foot extension, but I couldn't actually see this one. Matter of fact, I couldn't see the top two bolts, but I somehow managed to get them out after scratching my head for almost an hour! Anyhow, I busted my finger open trying to bust the bottom left bell housing bolt loose with an air ratchet. I cut it really bad, and should have gotten stitches, but I still had two checkouts to do, while still beating the Friday afternoon rush hour traffic to the freeway. So I elected to put a band aid on it, and leave the Cadillac until Tuesday (I have Mondays off). The lower-left bolt is really tough to get to because the ABS unit is in the way. That's why I was using an air ratchet (bad move).... But my main question is, how do I get to the lower-right bell housing bolt?? Tod Chretien TRNW Inc. Modesto, California tod@trnw.net http://trnw.net/ 'Networking the transmission industry into the 21st century' Tod Chretien (tod@trnw.net) tod@trnw.net RESPONSES: Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 19:08:23 EST Subject: Re: TRNW-2: 4T80E R&R Hi Tod     The two top bolts 6 in. extention sk lock socket and shallow 18 mm socket.Remove neutral safty switch to gain access to right lower housing bolt 15 swivel 1/4 inch drive  24in. extension work good. Hope this helps one way or the other! Sam PitSpitts@aol.com pitspitts@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:22:15 -0800 Subject: Re: TRNW-2: 4T80E R&R Sam, Thank you for the quick reply. Questions; How could you possibly break a bell housing bolt loose with 1/4' drive? The other 3 bell housing bolts are 18mm. Are you sure the lower right is a 15mm? Thanks again! Any other tips on this r/r would be greatly appreciated. Tod Chretien TRNW Inc. Modesto, California tod@trnw.net http://trnw.net/ 'Networking the transmission industry into the 21st century' Tod Chretien (tod@trnw.net) tod@trnw.net Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 19:30:41 -0500 Subject: Re: TRNW-2: 4T80E R&R He is correct. 15 mm I think I used a wrench. Len Ralph's Transmission Vineland, NJ rtrans@kwiknet.net. Len (len@kwiknet.net) len@kwiknet.net Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:34:20 -0600 Subject: Re: TRNW-2: 4T80E R&R Hi Tod, Can't help with this one. I have never been involved in pulling one. Have only heard the cussing in the hoist area ;o)) Ron transdoc@juno.com transdoc@juno.com Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 20:10:19 EST Subject: Re: TRNW-2: 4T80E R&R Hi  Tod     Break it loose with wrench  then speed out with 1/4 setup for easy access.Hope this helps! Sam PitSpitts@aol.com pitspitts@aol.com Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 19:34:39 -0600 Subject: Re: TRNW-2: 4T80E R&R Tod, You have been introduced to the 'blood bolt'. For some reason everytime we remove a Northstar it draws blood. Especially that back 15 mm bolt. We use a short Snap-on 15 combo hand wrench and hit it with a long pry bar and hammer to break it loose. Once it is broken loose, use a 15 mm wobble1/4' impact attached to a universal wobble 1/4 on a 24' 1/4' extenition. It looks crazy those 2 wobbles together, but it is fast. Be SURE to put all the bolts back, or a broken flywheel could result. I hate the wiring harness at the tops bolts almost as bad. Dan Tucker 2000 North University Drive Pine Bluff, Arkansas 71601 E-Mail Transman@Prodigy.net Home Phone (870) 534-2407 Dan Tucker (transman@prodigy.net) transman@prodigy.net Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:40:31 -0500 Subject: Re: TRNW-2: 4T80E R&R Tod, the last one I did, I dropped the engine hangar as far as I could and got the bolt from under the car, with a wrench. It's 15mm and comes in from the same side as the other bolts. Hope this helps.....Larry Utter Larry Utter (lcutter@warwick.net) lcutter@warwick.net Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:38:39 -0500 Subject: Re: TRNW-2: 4T80E R&R Tod, The last one I did, I also got it loose from the bottom, the same way as Dan, then used my shorty 15mm to turn it about a 1/4 turn at a time, and it fought valiantly to the last thread. Hey, when you get it out, see if you can find my shallow 18mm impact socket. I dropped it after it caught on the wiring harness after tightening the upper bellhousing bolt. Couldn't find it now how. Gotta be in one of them Caddys. Dave Hocanson Dave Hocanson (hsp@bright.net) hsp@bright.net Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:03:01 -0500 Subject: Re: TRNW-2: 4T80E R&R I have not had one of these units yet, except for a CB from Vermont. Code 39, which we all know is the viscous converter. Customer decided to live with it. I was just curious as to what the charge is around the country for this unit. The Vermont bill was $2500.00 I thought this was a little low. Any input appreciated. Thanks Jim, III Dirk Stardust (stardust@frontiernet.net) stardust@frontiernet.net Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:16:40 -0800 Subject: Re: TRNW-2: 4T80E R&R Thank you very much for all of the great replies. At least now I know where to look for that last bolt. I also found more tips on this R/R in our own R/R database. I will add the latest tips to that page when I get some time. Thanks again! Tod Chretien TRNW Inc. Modesto, California tod@trnw.net http://trnw.net/ 'Networking the transmission industry into the 21st century' Tod Chretien (tod@trnw.net) tod@trnw.net Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:02:20 -0600 Subject: Re: TRNW-2: 4T80E R&R Tod, We just had our first Northstar Caddy come in last Thursday for a leak. The R&R man was sure relieved when it turned out to be motor oil instead of tranny fluid dripping!! I can't offer much help other that to remind you to check the R&R tips section of the web site ( There IS info there! . ). I looked the other day when ours came in, and in a few moments of reading I knew everything you have been told so far and more. Robert Bruce roberttech@ev1.net Robert Bruce (roberttech@ev1.net) roberttech@ev1.net Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:56:18 -0500 Subject: Re: TRNW-2: 4T80E R&R Around here in VA, the price is @3000.00-3,500.00 to install a re-man. Joey Campbell Joey Campbell (bccampbe@sitestar.net) bccampbe@sitestar.net Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:06:19 -0600 Subject: Re: TRNW-2: 4T80E R&R I can't comment about the bolts but can say that this is one of the few jobs where my R&R guys use the hanging bracket - no jack. There is too much stuff to get around just to support with jack. You can probably sell the customer most of the motor mounts and oil leak repairs while you are there. Chuck Stasny cdsstaz (cdsstaz@wt.net) cdsstaz@wt.net