QUESTION:

Original Customer Complaint: "Jerks on shift"51,000 miles and 3 years ago, when we built the unit.

Original Codes Present: (Back we built it 51K miles ago) 36 - Fault immediately after a shift. 53 - Gear Ratio Error in 3rd. CVIs: L/R=70 2/4=41 O/D=96 U/D=52 Ign.Cycles=0

Previous Repairs: (This is when we rebuilt the transmission 51,000 miles ago back in 1999. This was one of those job that you tear down and don't find what you were expecting. The common snap ring breakage haddn't occured, but the snap ring was waved when you laid it on the bench, so my builder figured it was about break, and it probably was a VEP, too. Updated drum, kit, converter, SK, the usual. Both sensors replaced. New pigtail leads on turbine & output sensor.

Current Customer Complaint: No movement.

Codes Currently Present: 36 - Fault immediately after a shift. 50 - Gear ratio error in reverse. 51 - Gear ratio error in 1st. 52 - Gear ratio error in 2nd. CVIs: L/R=60 O/D=92 2/4=48 U/D=37 57=Output speed sensor error.

Work Completed: Pulled codes, read CVIs, Ignition cycles. Removed and disassembled transmission. Looked in my tech library and the TRNW Fix Database.

Summary: This vehicle was involved in a light right side impact that is going to result in just having the right side door replaced. The door still works, but it has not been fixed yet. "EVER SINCE THE WRECK..." The lady customer has had a vibration. She goes to the tire shop and they sell a set of tire. No fix. She then drives to a general repair shop and they sell both axles. Still no fix. She then drives to the dealer and they are checking the mounts by power braking the engine fwd & rev. in front of the customer. KA-BOOM!!! RACKETY-RACKETY GRIND-GRIND-GRIND. :-( She calls me up and I have the tech, service advisor, & the customer on the phone at the same time. They all agreed on how it happened. I disassemble the unit and find the reation sun gear (front sun gear) weld broken to the reverse clutch & 2-4 clutch hubs. The rest of the unit is cherry. Less than a gram of metal powder on the magnet, pan is clean, fluid is blood red. Either I need to be educated on the powerflow of a 604, or I have more than one problem on my hands. In my mind, this broken sun gear-to-hub weld would only cause no reverse and no upshift out of 1st, but would NOT cause the vehicle not to move forward. Any Ideas, Guys?

Larry Bloodworth -
larrybloodworth@hotmail.com
TRNW Member Since: 9/26/97 (12 | 49)

RESPONSES:

• Date: Tue Feb 26 22:10:01 PST 2002
  Subject: RE: 41TE, No Movement
  Vehicle: 1993 Dodge Caravan, 3.3

  Hi Larry, Did you look at the converter splines? You might have two problems at once like you mentioned.

  Jim Eberhart - Aamco Transmissions Inc
  jeberhart@aamco.com
  TRNW Member Since: 3/31/99 (0 | 135)

• Date: Wed Feb 27 06:03:31 PST 2002
  Subject: RE: 41TE, No Movement
  Vehicle: 1993 Dodge Caravan, 3.3

  Jim: Yes, I checked the splines. I bottomed the input shaft in the converter, then lifed the shaft up about 1/4". I then turned the shaft and I can feel the turbine in the converter turning. I also, after draining the converter, I gave the spines a visual inspection and they looked fine. Thanks for your reply.

  Larry Bloodworth -
  larrybloodworth@hotmail.com
  TRNW Member Since: 9/26/97 (12 | 49)

• Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 22:22:27 -0800
  Subject: 41TE, No Movement

  Larry, Once in limp mode you get a no move both forward and reverse, since you now have second gear start. So the question here is, who tried this vehicle to confirm the no move condition? Once you find out who it is, just ask if he tried reverse first. Bet you he did, set a code 50 and BAM limp mode...= no move anywhere. Tranibob

  Robert Moreau
  Mission Viejo, California
  tranibob@juno.com
  TRNW Member Since: 8/30/97 (1 | 300)

UPDATE:

O.K.; I feel better now. I was correct in my understanding of the powerflow. The front sun gear is held for 2nd & 4th, and driven for reverse. It's just along for the ride in 1st gear. -----BUT------ I had this revelation: What if the unit was in Limp-In mode??? 2nd gear only, hence the no forward movement. I failed to actually check to whether it was in Limp Mode, but my books tell me that every code I have would put the vehicle into Limp-In. Duh. I sometimes amaze myself with my stupidity. :-) I was leaning toward a solenoid pack, because a couple of No Movement conditions in the Fix Database had solenoid pack listed as a fix, but I had a hard time believing 2 different failures could occur at the exact same instant. After I get this unit in, I'll post the fix if my theory is correct. Thanks to all that responded to the post; especially Jeff Funk. Save The Planet! Don't Let Morons Reproduce! :-)

Larry Bloodworth -
larrybloodworth@hotmail.com
TRNW Member Since: 9/26/97 (12 | 50)

MORE RESPONSES:

• Date: Thu Feb 28 07:18:49 PST 2002
  Subject: RE: 41TE, No Movement
  Vehicle: 1993 Dodge Caravan, 3.3

  Hey Larry, I think Tranibob had this same revelation 3 days ago.

  John Lovell -
  ent@crosslink.net
  TRNW Member Since: 7/27/99 (1 | 31)

• Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:17:05 -0800
  Subject: 41TE, No Movement

  Revelation Larry!!! You got to be kidding, right? Take a look at the entire thread http://www.trnw.net/trnw/z_feedback_tmp/41TE.html#2 Did you see it there, only a few minutes after you asked the question, my reply to you explaining precisely your now 'newly discovered' Limp-In mode theory? Oh, and looking at the thread I didn't see any reply from Jeff.... oh well most likely from another list or a private e-mail that the rest of us didn't get to read... Tranibob

  Robert Moreau
  Mission Viejo, California
  tranibob@juno.com
  TRNW Member Since: 8/30/97 (1 | 301)

FIX:

Broken weld at front sun gear-to-2/4 clutch hub. Yep, my understanding of the theory of the operation of this trans seems to be correct, as I previously suggested. Unit works great and the CVI values are within proper range. Just when you think you know a unit well, you have one come along that befuddles you. :-)

Larry Bloodworth -
larrybloodworth@hotmail.com
TRNW Member Since: 9/26/97 (12 | 53)

UPDATE BY AUTHOR:

I just read this entire thread. For some reason, I must not be getting all of my E-mail. I think my mailbox must be full and I'm over my server's file size limit. Sorry, :-( Thanks Tranibob; you are EXACTLY correct. :-) Cleaning Up,

Larry Bloodworth -
larrybloodworth@hotmail.com
TRNW Member Since: 9/26/97 (12 | 53)

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