TRNW-2: Fwd: 10R80 pump bolts

Mon Feb 17 13:23:50 PST 2025

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Chris and Cathy Kershaw <kershawservicesllc at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: TRNW-2: 10R80 pump bolts
To: Dan Hogan <danhogan at busterstransmission.com>

Looks like it was revised in 23. They sure do make it tough to keep up with
all this.
[image: Screenshot_17-2-2025_16222_my.alldata.com.jpeg]

On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 2:45 PM Steve Everett <severett61 at gmail.com> wrote:

> This is probably the first time I've used a Transtec paper rubber on one
> of these,  but they do put the rubber seals for the pump bolts in the kits,
> and apparently also washers for them if you choose to go that route ?
>
>   Steve
>
> On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 11:56 AM Chris and Cathy Kershaw <
> kershawservicesllc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Last I looked the 10r paper rubber kits are cheaper from ford & frictions
>> are more expensive from ford. We’ve been doing Transtar kits with bw
>> frictions. Sometimes our salesman has to order the individual frictions
>> from a couple branches.
>> On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 11:17 AM Steve Everett via trnw2 <trnw2 at trnw.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>   We do have a small local dealer that we get all the drums and
>>> valvebodies from , they're good about keeping the commonly replaced items
>>> in stock, I'll get the manager to check on kits,  I generally won't use
>>> anything but BW on the friction,  and I ordered a Transtec paper and rubber
>>> yesterday, which amazingly was actually cheaper than the other option
>>>
>>>     Steve
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 10:55 AM pat schulte <zzyzxpat at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you have a dealer close it might be something to look at, I buy
>>>> everything from Ford. I have found especially with friction and steels, the
>>>> aftermarket (Ray) usually are not the correct thickness many times, plus
>>>> the OE prices are very competitive.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 7:45 AM Steve Everett via trnw2 <trnw2 at trnw.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>    The unit I tore down friday was a 2021 unit, and it has the
>>>>> external torx bolts, with a rubber seal around the inside of the head,
>>>>> similar to 4L80e pump bolts,  this unit had a terrible converter shudder,
>>>>> which was the main reason for pulling it,  around 100k,  trash can is worn
>>>>> but not real bad, drum sleeve hasn't moved,  we're replacing both anyway
>>>>> with updated parts, as well as a valvebody,
>>>>>
>>>>>     The reason I asked about the pump bolts originally is because I
>>>>> remember when we first started seeing these units we were told "always
>>>>> replace the pump bolts," but in looking closely at them I saw no reason for
>>>>> that ? all the ones I've done have had the rubber seal around the inside of
>>>>> the bolt head,   the ones that come in one of the aftermarket ktis simply
>>>>> have a ring of silicone there, and once you tighten them down it destroys
>>>>> and flattens that silicone ring,  ( discovered that on the first unit I
>>>>> built when I didnt have a clutch hub all the way engaged in the clutches,
>>>>> and had to tear the unit back down )
>>>>>
>>>>>     It seems there isn't a day goes by lately that I am not
>>>>> disappointed in the quality of some of the replacement parts we either have
>>>>> to use , or are supposed to use?  I'm seriously looking forward to retiring
>>>>> and then I will pick and choose what I want to work on,
>>>>>
>>>>>     Steve
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 8:02 AM Dan Hogan via trnw2 <trnw2 at trnw.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> They changed these pump bolts at some point as the original installed
>>>>>> and original replacements appeared to have a sealing patch on the bolt
>>>>>> flange and now the bolts in the OE kit have actual rubber seals under the
>>>>>> bolt head.  Ford also changed from 10 mm hex heads to an external torx plus
>>>>>> heads (EP) shown below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Randy for the info and this makes better sense on the pump
>>>>>> bolts here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The aluminum bolts used to hold the transfer case to the transmission
>>>>>> must not be technically TTY as they have only one specified torque value.
>>>>>> I was looking and appears there are another category of bolts for aluminum
>>>>>> fasteners designated as one-time use (OTU) and we see this a lot of German
>>>>>> suspensions.  These don't use a seal patch or have any locking compound on
>>>>>> them, so I suppose the fastener permanently stretching much like a TTY
>>>>>> fastener is the reason for the one time use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Identifix must have the original (old) manual for the 2018 as this is
>>>>>> not the same description as I just finished an 18 this week.  I think your
>>>>>> Alldata is showing the manual for a later model or a revised copy.
>>>>>> Probably closer to 2023-2024 would be my guess.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check to see if Alldata shows the revision date up in the right top
>>>>>> corner of the document.  This is showing  8/21/19.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Keeping us on our toes I guess...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan Hogan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Buster's Transmission Service
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://busterstransmission.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 704.847.5321
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> *From:* trnw2-bounces at trnw.net <trnw2-bounces at trnw.net> on behalf of
>>>>>> Steve Everett via trnw2 <trnw2 at trnw.net>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2025 6:01 PM
>>>>>> *To:* Randolph Wilson <Randolph.Wilson at transgo.com>; Technical
>>>>>> Discussion Forum <trnw2 at trnw.net>
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: TRNW-2: 10R80 pump bolts
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Thanks Randy !   good o know ,  oddly enough the seals on the Ford
>>>>>> bolts remain in good shape after removing them , unlike the aftermarket
>>>>>> ones where the sealer is flattened and destroyed after initial tightening,
>>>>>>    I'll play close attention to the condition of the seals, but I intend on
>>>>>> reusing the bolts, unless I can get new ones from Ford,  I do not like or
>>>>>> trust the aftermarket ones
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Steve
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 5:32 PM Randolph Wilson via trnw2 <
>>>>>> trnw2 at trnw.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are many reasons a manufacturer will call for new bolts.  Most
>>>>>> common is because of a special coating on the bolts. The coating can be a
>>>>>> sealer, a locking agent, or an anti-corrosion lubricant (think magnesium
>>>>>> cases). They can also be torque to yield. The one thing about TTY is they
>>>>>> will always be protractor torqued. Not all protractor torqued bolts are
>>>>>> TTY, but TTY will always be protractor torqued.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In this case Ford calls for replacing them because of the sealer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.transgo.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=smOzNWPZu5-MBJg-0tkHhHoVW9xEBKdKWsMxBeFAJDZVJI6X79ZhQVJ_erT6I9aF&m=V0WPChPhqgQ5ukNS48lkrV9etP1qesMLG6qjl_UdEVOZJ-QLBQ96gD98wOcjzhiC&s=fzsRheYvTDi1SiozTvti63qG6x5_qCvpuwgeykLD-zs&e=>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Randy Wilson*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Technical Support Specialist*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2621 Merced Avenue El Monte, CA 91733 USA
>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2621+Merced+Avenue+El+Monte,+CA+91733+USA?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>> Office: 626.443-7451
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Calibration | Innovation |Performance*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.facebook.com_TransGo-2D600961476956220&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=smOzNWPZu5-MBJg-0tkHhHoVW9xEBKdKWsMxBeFAJDZVJI6X79ZhQVJ_erT6I9aF&m=V0WPChPhqgQ5ukNS48lkrV9etP1qesMLG6qjl_UdEVOZJ-QLBQ96gD98wOcjzhiC&s=3P8PB-WnggNOB5VJh2BLZbcQh2kQwSl16OdWeJX4kxE&e=>
>>>>>>  [image: 1475592640337_I]
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.instagram.com_transgoshiftkit&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=smOzNWPZu5-MBJg-0tkHhHoVW9xEBKdKWsMxBeFAJDZVJI6X79ZhQVJ_erT6I9aF&m=V0WPChPhqgQ5ukNS48lkrV9etP1qesMLG6qjl_UdEVOZJ-QLBQ96gD98wOcjzhiC&s=CKyeC_VG14e54DpQHFhtiiFyCxoawV4DDj9IKhXEB3k&e=>
>>>>>>  [image: 1475592655171_t]
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_transgoshiftkit&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=smOzNWPZu5-MBJg-0tkHhHoVW9xEBKdKWsMxBeFAJDZVJI6X79ZhQVJ_erT6I9aF&m=V0WPChPhqgQ5ukNS48lkrV9etP1qesMLG6qjl_UdEVOZJ-QLBQ96gD98wOcjzhiC&s=ttNt-_lviBu6o9UU07My_bxr2SxgJTvW278a9VY0-Jk&e=>
>>>>>>  [image: 1475592664972_Y]
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_channel_UCg6v9MzFmq7g3fy7-2Dr9PGIg&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=smOzNWPZu5-MBJg-0tkHhHoVW9xEBKdKWsMxBeFAJDZVJI6X79ZhQVJ_erT6I9aF&m=V0WPChPhqgQ5ukNS48lkrV9etP1qesMLG6qjl_UdEVOZJ-QLBQ96gD98wOcjzhiC&s=UlaTS0FfXqreCaQOThPd19jxVtcUXk5T9AmZuj3SIb8&e=>
>>>>>>  [image: 1475592672363_L]
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.linkedin.com_company_transgo1_&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=smOzNWPZu5-MBJg-0tkHhHoVW9xEBKdKWsMxBeFAJDZVJI6X79ZhQVJ_erT6I9aF&m=V0WPChPhqgQ5ukNS48lkrV9etP1qesMLG6qjl_UdEVOZJ-QLBQ96gD98wOcjzhiC&s=nS9NjWlvB8-dPXafN_52iJvwn-Y30b0ZcqYL6kr06Ac&e=>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* trnw2-bounces at trnw.net <trnw2-bounces at trnw.net> *On Behalf
>>>>>> Of *Dan Hogan via trnw2
>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2025 1:11 PM
>>>>>> *To:* Technical Discussion Forum <trnw2 at trnw.net>
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: TRNW-2: 10R80 pump bolts
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These factory pump bolts appear to be TTY (torque to yield) and are
>>>>>> one and done.  I suspect if you decided to re-use, using the factory torque
>>>>>> spec likely will be too low as the bolts stretch once and deform.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know the transfer case to transmission bolts are definitely TTY and
>>>>>> the factory torque spec is very low.  I don't think shops are replacing as
>>>>>> needed, but it's likely a bad idea.  There's nine of them so guess they
>>>>>> cross their fingers, pray and blame later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wish makes would not use these type fasteners as it only
>>>>>> introducing errors and mistakes in the aftermarket to already expensive and
>>>>>> costly work.  Blame the eurotrash as they started this mess with TTY on
>>>>>> likely unnecessary areas of vehicles.  Cheaper i guess.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan Hogan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Buster's Transmission Service
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://busterstransmission.com
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__busterstransmission.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=smOzNWPZu5-MBJg-0tkHhHoVW9xEBKdKWsMxBeFAJDZVJI6X79ZhQVJ_erT6I9aF&m=V0WPChPhqgQ5ukNS48lkrV9etP1qesMLG6qjl_UdEVOZJ-QLBQ96gD98wOcjzhiC&s=u_eDJJFc-DyruvUBRow-8RgGFf8DM1dgQUGnSF8cHM4&e=>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 704.847.5321
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* trnw2-bounces at trnw.net <trnw2-bounces at trnw.net> on behalf of
>>>>>> Steve Everett via trnw2 <trnw2 at trnw.net>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2025 10:55 AM
>>>>>> *To:* Technical Discussion Forum <trnw2 at trnw.net>
>>>>>> *Subject:* TRNW-2: 10R80 pump bolts
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> anyone had any issues with reusing the factory 10R80 pump bolts ?
>>>>>> I've reused them on a couple units with no problems, I've tried using the
>>>>>> ones that come in Precision kits, but their seal is nothing but silicone,
>>>>>> which smashes and destroys itself after initial tightening ,  looks cheesy
>>>>>> to me, I trust the factory bolts over them,  as long as you don't over
>>>>>> torque them
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Steve
>>>>>> This message was sent from the TRNW Technical Discussion Forum
>>>>>> (trnw2). You were sent this message because you have subscribed to our
>>>>>> mailing list. If you don't want to receive these emails from TRNW in the
>>>>>> future, please unsubscribe here:
>>>>>> https://www.trnw.net/unsubscribe.php?forum=2
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.trnw.net_unsubscribe.php-3Fforum-3D2&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=smOzNWPZu5-MBJg-0tkHhHoVW9xEBKdKWsMxBeFAJDZVJI6X79ZhQVJ_erT6I9aF&m=V0WPChPhqgQ5ukNS48lkrV9etP1qesMLG6qjl_UdEVOZJ-QLBQ96gD98wOcjzhiC&s=g0Kdf63jSGT1j8PNcd1adsYNJyIpWY6AUMf1aSiVZDw&e=>
>>>>>> TRNW Inc., 2825 Walnut Terrace, Modesto, CA 95355
>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2825+Walnut+Terrace,+Modesto,+CA+95355?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This message was sent from the TRNW Technical Discussion Forum
>>>>>> (trnw2). You were sent this message because you have subscribed to our
>>>>>> mailing list. If you don't want to receive these emails from TRNW in the
>>>>>> future, please unsubscribe here:
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>>>>>> TRNW Inc., 2825 Walnut Terrace, Modesto, CA 95355
>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2825+Walnut+Terrace,+Modesto,+CA+95355?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>>
>>>>> This message was sent from the TRNW Technical Discussion Forum
>>>>> (trnw2). You were sent this message because you have subscribed to our
>>>>> mailing list. If you don't want to receive these emails from TRNW in the
>>>>> future, please unsubscribe here:
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>>>>> TRNW Inc., 2825 Walnut Terrace, Modesto, CA 95355
>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2825+Walnut+Terrace,+Modesto,+CA+95355?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Pat Schulte
>>>> AAMCO Transmissions
>>>> Temecula, Ca.
>>>>
>>> This message was sent from the TRNW Technical Discussion Forum (trnw2).
>>> You were sent this message because you have subscribed to our mailing list.
>>> If you don't want to receive these emails from TRNW in the future, please
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>>
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